Mount Vernon Invitational and NIETOC Qualifier
2020 — Mount Vernon, WA/US
Public Forum Paradigm List
All Paradigms: Show HideNow in college, debated in high school all four years, mostly in PF, earned a TOC bid one upon a time
PF:
-I can follow progressive rounds, but be careful running a K in PF. As long as your opponents actually understand you, I'm cool. If they don't understand you, it's simply not constructive to the educational value of the activity.
-Second rebuttal has to engage with first rebuttal in some way; second summary is far too late to address first rebuttal. I was a second speaker in high school, I know it's hard, but it really isn't optional.
-Summaries have to collapse to be effective. I found this concept hard to grasp as a debater, but the more I judge the more painfully clear this becomes.
-It's good for you if there is a framework against which I can evaluate the round that has been proposed by you.
-When judging PF I default to viewing the round as a straightforward comparison between the Con and Pro worlds. Though you can win without doing so, I welcome discussions on theory, burdens, etc.; I think they can be really helpful in PF to clarify what those worlds would look like, which is a prerequisite to weighing them well. That being said, stock issues are far, far more important, so spend your time accordingly.
-Cross is not flowed, so make arguments in speeches, not cross.
Above all, please have fun and keep things light. If you have any questions pre-round, please do not hesitate to ask! My email is firstlast at outlook if you are starting a chain.
HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!! I am so excited to be here!!!!!!!!!
I really want to drive home that the purpose of debate is to be inclusive and educational sooooooooooooooooooooo if you are racist, homophobic, sexist, biased, really offensive, or just a(n) (insert your favorite swear here) then I can assure you that you aren't going to like what you see on your ballotttttttt.
With that aside, the stuff you really want to know about......
I am traditional
Speed is a little sketchy, don't go really fast but you can go faster than conversational
I have judged open LD only BUT only three-ish tournaments
I think this topic is ironic because I am a registered nurse that works in the Monroe CORRECTIONAL prison
Aff/Neg, plz no confusing stuff, I mean I like to think I'm smart buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I am not reading anything on this topic
Feel free to ask me all of the questions (but doesn't mean I'll answer)
I don't disclose
I'm a traditional Public Forum judge. I place significant value on quality of argumentation, particularly with well-developed contentions and significant depth of argumentation. I'd encourage you to state your points concisely, and without significant undue repetition. I do not tolerate spreading; I expect you to have developed reasonable skills of word economy by this point in the season, and would hope that you can concisely develop your case to fit within the required time. I reward the use of reasonably clear enunciation at a comprehensible pace. While I do encourage you to weigh your arguments, be mindful of the tone you use to do so. "Speakersplaining" to me, attempting to tell me which way I am going to decide in the round rather than a courteous appeal for my vote, comes off as arrogant and will not do you any favors in my evaluation of the round. For any clarification, feel free to ask me in-round.
I am a parent judge from The Overlake School, Redmond, Washington. I have judged public forum form of debate for the last 3 years.
I like a clear and concise flow of arguments that ties to your case and advocates for your position as well as refutes your opponents’ arguments. I do not deduct points on speed and lack of speaking skills unless it impedes my understanding of your arguments.
Offline roadmaps and voters narrow down and bring into focus your mindset so they are helpful. I want you to be telling me why I should vote for you, through your logical construct and why your arguments are convincing enough to give you that win since often at this level, both teams are equally passionate about their respective sides and have worked on their cases.
I believe that through debate, students learn valuable lessons and I seek to be fair so will pull up any student who tries not to follow conventions during cross-examination rounds and are rude. Argue passionately, have fun yet be respectful of your opponents’ ideas and convictions. You are here because you enjoy being here and I respect you for that.
PARENT JUDGE THIS IS MY FIRST TIME JUDGING
I have a strong preference for logical arguments based on facts, even if I personally disagree with your position. I expect debates to be civilized and speakers to be serious and courteous to each other. Relax and have fun.
Coach and judge of 18 years.
Lincoln Douglas:
I always fall back on the basic explanations on the National Speech and Debate LD ballot.
1. The resolution evaluated is a proposition of value, which concerns itself with what ought to be instead of what is. Values are ideals held by individuals, societies, governments, etc., which serve as the highest goals to be considered or achieved within the context of the resolution in question.
*This is paramount for me.
2. Each debater has the burden to prove their side of the resolution more valid as a general principle. It is unrealistic to expect a debater to prove complete validity or invalidity of the resolution. The better debater is the one who, on the whole, proves their side of the resolution more valid as a general principle.
*I dislike when one debater puts the burden of proof on the other side.
3. Students are encouraged to research topic-specific literature and applicable works of philosophy. The nature of proof should be in the logic and the ethos of a
student's independent analysis and/or authoritative opinion.
4. Communication should emphasize clarity. Accordingly, a judge should only evaluate those arguments that were presented in a manner that was clear and understandable to them as a judge. Throughout the debate, the competitors should display civility as well as a professional demeanor and style of delivery.
*No spreading/speed reading. I put huge emphasis on clarity. Persuade me with your language and well crafted thoughts. If I can't understand you, you can't win.
5. After a case is presented, neither debater should be rewarded for presenting a speech completely unrelated to the arguments of their opponent; there must be clash concerning the major arguments in the debate. Cross-examination should clarify, challenge, and/or advance arguments.
6. The judge shall disregard new arguments introduced in rebuttal. This does not include the introduction of new evidence in support of points already advanced or the
refutation of arguments introduced by opponents.
7. Because debaters cannot choose which side of the resolution to advocate, judges must be objective evaluators of both sides of the resolution. Evaluate the round
based only on the arguments that the debaters made and not on personal opinions or on arguments you would have made.
Hello, I have been a PUFO judge since 2018 when our son was at Eastlake high school. I would like to see courtesy-respect . Good luck :)
Completed NFHS courses in Cultural Competence and Adjudicating Speech & Debate.
This is my fourth year judging PF and Speech events.
For Individual Events:
Relax and lean into your natural talent - you chose this event for a reason. Keep a pace that compliments the work without rushing it. For entries that are really close in rank, it will be the person who hit the purpose of the event most closely and whose performance flowed best that will take higher rank.
For Public Forum:
Communicate clearly, make it real, and road-map well.
Practicality is key. If you want to win, you must persuade me using lots of signposts and taglines for a strong and clear flow. Make it as easy as possible for me to flow the arguments - having to go on a scavenger hunt through my flow is not fun for anyone. Also, be clear on your voting issues and how they should be weighed.
With anything you devote a lot of energy to, I value purpose. You spend a lot of time prepping for this, make it meaningful by relating it effectively to why it matters in the real world. As you can guess, I am a big fan of impact and impact comparison. Big points for a strong value premise and supporting criterion.
Being an effective communicator will always help you stay ahead/catch up in the debate and will most definitely define a tie-breaker. Speak at a human pace, and use your words powerfully. You would never talk so fast in any occupation, so don't do it here either - be articulate enough to convey your message without speed-talking. Quality over quantity will gain you speaker points.
My name is Robin Monteith and i am the coach for The Overlake School in Remond, Wa. I am a parent coach and was introduced to speech and debate through being a parent judge. This is my second year judging at speech and debate competitions. Both years, I judged PF, LD, Congress, and many speech categories. I have no policy experience. I became a coach this year, and coach students in many speech categories, PF, LD, and Congress. My educational background is in psychology and social work.
I am looking for students to convince me that the side they are arguing on is right. I like statistics, but am also looking for the big picture. It will help if you give a clear and highly organized case. Make sure that you don't talk so fast that you lose your enunciation. Also, remember that I am trying to write and process what you are saying so if you are talking really fast some of your arguments may be missed. While the point of debate is to take apart your opponents case, I do not like it when teams get too aggressive or cross the line into being rude. I value both argument and style in that I think your style can help get your argument across or not get it across well. Don't do theory or Kritiks. I am not a flow judge, but do take extensive notes. You need to extend arguments in your summary and final focus and I will disregard any new arguments presented in final focus as this is unfair to your opponents. In summary I like for you to summarize the debate for me. Both your side and your opponents. In final focus I want to hear voters. Why do you think you won the debate. What evidence did you present that outweighs your opponents evidence, etc.
Preferred email: rmonteith@overlake.org
TL;DR
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Be kind in all that you do.
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I flow but not particularly well (especially the back half) and generally will not evaluate arguments that I don't understand, so please collapse and make sure you clearly extend your warranting.
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I am generally okay with spreading as long as I get a speech doc.
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I have a slight preference for truth over tech. My brightline here isn’t totally clear so you’re probably best playing it safe.
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Under no circumstances will I vote for a "death good" argument and under very few circumstances will I vote for an "oppression good" argument. Pretty much every other type of argument is fine.
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Theory should only be run for legitimate norms and legitimate violations. Running stuff like “tall people theory” or “formal clothes theory” almost guarantees a loss.
- For email chain purposes: thadhsmith13@gmail.com
Background
I’ve been a member of the debating world for about eight years now. As a competitor, I saw some success at the state and national level in Public Forum, Lincoln Douglas, and World Schools, qualifying for the state championship four times and placing 10th at Nats in 2019. I also competed in BP debate at the university level in England. I am currently an assistant coach for American Heritage School - Broward.
I have a Bachelor’s degree in Political Science and Gender, Sexuality, & Race Studies. I have a Master’s degree in Theory and Practice of Human Rights. You can expect me to have more than the average level of knowledge in those areas. I like to think that I know about as much as the average person on most other things, but for economic arguments (or anything involving math) I get lost easily. Do with that what you will!
Evidence ethics
I have voted on evidence ethics violations in the past, both with and without competitors calling them out in round. Straw arguments, aggressive ellipses, and brackets could all be round-enders.
Don't paraphrase! I will be very open to cut cards theory, direct quotes theory, or anything else like that. If you do paraphrase, you need to be able to provide a cut card or the exact quote you're referencing if evidence is called. It's not a reasonable expectation for your opponents or I to have to scrub through a webpage or a long document searching for your evidence.
Public Forum
I find myself leaning more and more truth > tech, especially with the state of evidence ethics these days. It's really important for you to explain the link chain and somewhat important for you to explain things like author credibility/study methodology, especially for big impact contentions.
Line-by-line rebuttal is really important in the front half of the round. That means you should be frontlining in second rebuttal, respond to arguments in an order that makes logical sense, and actively extend your own arguments. For an extension to be effective you need to tell me what the argument is, how it works, and why it's important. You can almost always do this in three sentences or less. These pieces are important - I don't flow evidence names, so saying something like "Hendrickson solves" without an explanation does nothing for you.
Fiat is pretty much always a thing - There's a reason Public Forum topics usually ask "is this policy a good idea" and not "will this thing happen." My view of fiat is that it lets the debate take place on a principles level and creates a "comparative" between a world with a policy and a world without a policy. That said, politics arguments can work, but only if they relate to a political consequence of a policy being enacted and not if they try and say a policy will never happen in the first place.
Kritiks and theory are fine in PF. Be mindful of your time constraints. For kritiks, focus on explaining how your cards work and what the alternative is. For theory, make sure there's a legitimate violation and that it's something you're willing to bet the round on. Theory exists to create norms. I won’t vote on frivolous theory and I won’t vote on your shell if you aren’t actively embodying the norm you’re proposing.
Flex prep does not exist. “Open” crossfires don’t exist. As a whole, crossfire doesn’t matter that much but you still shouldn’t contradict yourself between cross and speech.
Lincoln-Douglas
I really enjoy a good framework debate and it’s something that I find is missing from a lot of modern LD rounds. One of the best parts of LD is getting to see how different philosophies engage with each other, and we’re gonna see that thru framing. I do my best to evaluate the framework debate at the very top and use it as my primary decision-making mechanism. Framing doesn't have to be done with a value/criterion if you'd rather run a K or Theory or something else, but you need to five me a role of the ballot if you don't use a value/criterion.
Please don’t spread philosophy or theory if you want me to flow it - I read and write it all the time and I still barely understand it, so I’m not going to understand what you’re saying if you’re going 500 words per minute. If you must spread your framework or K, send me the case or be prepared to explain it again next speech.
I’m fine with condo, fiat, and counterplans. Please don’t paraphrase and don't rehighlight.
"Debate bad" arguments are pretty weird. I probably won't vote on them because, at the most fundamental level, you're still participating in a debate round and perpetuating whatever core "harm" of debate that you're talking about. If your alternative is a reasonable alternative or reform instead of just "don't do debate", I could be persuaded, but you've got an uphill battle.
Congress
If you have me as your parli, there are two things you need to know about me: I love Robert's Rules of Order and I hate one-sided debate. Ignore these things at your own risk. Other important things, in no particular order:
- Display courtesy to your fellow competitors and do your best to ensure that everyone in the chamber is heard. I pay attention to pre-round, in-round, and post-round politics.
- Engagement with the other speakers is important, both through questions and through in-speech references. Every speech past the author/sponsor needs to have rebuttal or extension of some kind.
- Authorships/sponsorships (there's no such thing as a "first affirmative") need to explain exactly what the bill does. Don't assume I'll read the packet.
- Good Congress rounds have a narrative arc - The first few speeches should present core arguments and frame the round, the next few speeches should be heavy on refutation and extension, and the final few speeches should crystallize the debate.
- Many things that people do in-round have no basis in either the rules or parliamentary procedure. Many motions don't exist - There are no motions to "address the chamber," "open the floor for debate," "amend the agenda," or "impeach the presiding officer." You can't rescind a seconded motion (or a second), you can't object to a motion to move the previous question, most tournaments don't have a requirement to track question recency, elections should really be handled by the parli, etc.
- At this point, I've heard every canned intro under the sun. If I hear you use the same exact intro on multiple different bills/rounds, or the same intro as a dozen other people, or the same unfunny meta-references with random names subbed in, you are getting docked speech points. It takes barely any effort to come up with an intro that's relevant to your content.
World Schools
The most important thing for you to do is to remember the purpose of your speech. Your speech should not be defined by the "line-by-line," rather, you should have a clear idea or set of ideas that you are trying to get across and I should be able to understand what those ideas were at the end of your speech. I am a big believer in the "World Schools style," meaning that I like it when debaters lean into the concept of being representatives in a global governing body, when debaters deploy flowery rhetoric about grand ideals, and when debaters spend a lot of time establishing and engaging with the framework/definitions/plan for the debate.
Theory
I'm fine with theory as long as it's a legitimate norm and a legitimate violation. Don't run frivolous theory (I'm not going to vote on something like "debaters should sit during their speeches", for example) and don't run theory if it isn't a norm you're actively doing yourself (don't run disclosure theory if you didn't disclose either). I don't have a preference on DtD vs. DtA or Competing Interpretations vs. Responsibility. I lean rather heavily towards theory being a RVI, especially in PF debates where it often becomes the only argument in the round.
I'm ambivalent about trigger warnings. I'm not going to be the arbiter of somebody else's experience and there's not much evidence that they're actually harmful in any meaningful way. Be aware that simply saying "trigger warning" tells us nothing - If you have one, be specific (but not graphic) about the potentially triggering content.
Kritiks
Kritiks are an incredibly powerful education tool that let debaters bring light to important issues. That said, you do need a link, preferably a resolutional/case one. I'm not opposed to hearing kritiks that tackle the structure of debate as a whole, but I think that it's difficult for you to justify that while also participating in the structure (especially because I've seen the same debaters participate in debate rounds without talking about these structural issues). Just like theory, you should be talking about legitimate issues, not just trying to win a round.
Death Good/Oppression Good
"Death good" is a nonstarter in front of me. I get it - I was a high school debater too, and I have vivid memories of running the most asinine arguments possible because I thought it would be a path to a technical victory. As I've stepped away from competition, entered the role of an educator, and (especially) as I've become immersed in human rights issues indirectly through my research and personally through my work, I no longer hold the same view of these arguments. I've been in rounds where judges and the audience are visibly, painfully uncomfortable with one side's advocacy. I've voted on the flow and felt sick doing it. I don't anymore. Do not run "death good" in front of me unless you want a loss and 20 speaks. It's not good education, it actively creates an unsafe space, and its often incredibly callous to actual, real-world human suffering.
"Oppression good" is also generally bad but I can at least see a potential case here, kinda? Probably best to avoid anyway.
1. Your arguments should have quantifiable impacts if you want to win; qualitative impacts will not be sufficient in most cases
2. I I cannot hear or compile your argument(s), I might not be able to judge it for correctness or completeness. Therefore, do not spread
3. Use logic to win your argument, pathos will not work with me
I am a parent judge, please speak clear and concisely. I value substantively engaging with the arguments that the other team makes, which means I will prefer one or two clear rebuttals over four or five unimplicated ones, and reiterating your strongest arguments by fully explaining why you opponent has not responded well.
If you say “GO DAWGS”, I’ll give you high speaks. I am a huge fan of chocolate!